Shelby seems to be starting up her own little cult following right here on JWN. Which is fine, but word to the wise for you disciples, if she ever offers you a brightly colored beverage, just excuse yourselves quickly and run for the hills.
cognizant dissident
JoinedPosts by cognizant dissident
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404
The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...
by AGuest indear ones.
rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.
a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.
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65
Sexual Abuse and the Reduction in the Belief in God
by Lady Lee inin my last year of university i wrote a paper called traumatic child sexual abuse, psychological death and the reduction in the belief in the power of god.
it was a term paper for a class on death and dying for a religion course i took.
not exactly what the prof expected but he agreed it made some excellent points.
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cognizant dissident
Well, I'm an atheist and I consider myself spiritual, in that I think there is some sort of energy or spirit that connects us all. I don't necessarily think of that spirit as God, though, or even as conscious in any way. I also don't think of it as higher. I don't think of energy as negative or positive either, personalizing the energy in any way. It just "is". We all just "are". We are all exchanging molecules and feeding off the same energy sources though as long as we share this planet and that is where the awareness of interconnectedness comes in for me. We fool ourselves if we think that all of our words and actions don't have a ripple affect to other beings and the eco-system. The affect can be either constructive or destructive, (or sometimes both). It's not always in our control, but where it is we have a choice to make. It's easier to make that constructive choice if we are not in denial about our interconnectedness or stuck in an incredibly selfish ego-centric state.
I don't think I came to any of this lack of belief in God due to my sexual abuse. I was also never angry at God. I just truly accepted the core belief that I was bad and unlovable and undeserving of any better. When I did get fully in touch with my anger it was pretty much solely directed right at the people who perpetrated the abuse, not at God (whom I still believed in at the time) Well, if anything, I've always definitely believed in people taking responsibility for their actions, not deflecting blame elsewhere. (With the sole exception of myself, whom I blamed for everything). My parents taught me well.
The one thing that did lead to my disbelief in God, was my sexual abuse counseling, although we never talked about God and I have no idea whether my counselor believed in God or not. However it was indirectly responsible because it taught me to question those core beliefs about myself and my parents that I had been taught since childhood. They were wrong. What was done to me was a crime. They did not have my best interests at heart. They had their own. Including my mother who covered it up. Once I was able to allow myself to ask those questions and come to my own answers that I KNEW were true, despite anyone else's bullshit stories, well, could questioning the bible and God be far behind? If they had been wrong about me, then maybe they were wrong about all the other stuff they taught me too.
It opened up a dam and a flood of questions and challenging everyone of my core beliefs. I had to learn to start from scratch, re-parenting and re-teaching myself everything and that naturally flowed into confronting and questioning my religious beliefs, a process that took years and produced some of the same anxiety attacks that confronting my parents about the abuse had. For a while there, I felt like a four year old, asking why, why, why, every 5 minutes. That settled down when I realized most of us were going to die without all the answers and that was OK too.
I still don't think my lack of belief has anything to do with abuse though. Or anger. I de-constructed my entire belief system and my entire life and then put it back together again based upon what seemed rational and right to me (after researching lots of perspectives). It may have been abuse and anger that caused that deconstruction process to begin, but it is not what drew me to my conclusions of atheism when I was reconstructing. I trusted myself and my innate intelligence over that of other people for the first time in my life. So far it's working out pretty good for me.
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Do you consider yourself to be quiet or outgoing?
by mrsjones5 insomething someone said on one of the popularity topics got me to wondering who on the board is quiet and who are the outgoing ones in real life.
i'm a quiet person in real life, takes me a while to warm up to folks that i just meet, but if i really like a person my rarely used gift of gab comes out.. how about ya'll?.
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cognizant dissident
As a child, I could usually be found slightly apart from the madding crowd, with my nose in a book. Meyers Brigg = ISFJ I'm not painfully shy, though. I only had a slight preference for introversion on the test.
Like Terry, I've watched and learned how to play the game and can hold my own in pretty much any social situation. I just find it slightly fatiguing. I will be quiet around people who are loud and aggressive though and open up and blossom, chatting away one on one with someone who is warm and welcoming.
I've noticed the vast majority posting seem to classify themselves as quiet and introverted. I have a theory that is probably because such types gravitate towards the internet and its form of communication. A slight distancing between themselves and the subject is less intimidating and frees them to say what they really think and feel.
The more extroverted types are probably out partying with their friends on the weekend, not posting on internet discussion forums.
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Lady Lee- who are you, and what's YOUR story?
by theMadJW insince they have fingered you as a mod, you should have a very interesting tale to tell; please do!.
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cognizant dissident
Well they got it in spades. Most likely more than they dreampt of.
Ha, ha, that'll teach em not to ask questions that they don't really want the answers to...
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Sleaze Update...
by White Dove inemail exchange just a minute ago:.
him: "i just wanted to let you know that i never had any intention of causing any harm.
and i apologize for anything that seemed that way.".
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cognizant dissident
Yes, Mods, please lock it, because my feelings have been terribly hurt by people disagreeing with me and calling me names, like rude, condescending, jackass. Or alternatively, I could just stop posting on it and so could any others who are too upset by it to continue.
Yeah, that's the ticket. Problem solved!
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Sleaze Update...
by White Dove inemail exchange just a minute ago:.
him: "i just wanted to let you know that i never had any intention of causing any harm.
and i apologize for anything that seemed that way.".
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cognizant dissident
Six of nine is so cool because he agrees with you on this thread, and those who don't are jackasses. Gee, I feel like I'm back in highschool.
Well, I thought six of nine was really cool on a few other threads where I agreed with him, but now I'm not so sure.
Perhaps he'll be cool again tomorrow if he posts something I agree with then.
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209
Sleaze Update...
by White Dove inemail exchange just a minute ago:.
him: "i just wanted to let you know that i never had any intention of causing any harm.
and i apologize for anything that seemed that way.".
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cognizant dissident
Perhaps you are trying to help and be supportive by pointing out what your perceive to be immature behavior, and I can respect that. But my angry outspoken online persona wants to tell you to shut the eff up and go find someone else to pick on, talk about drama queens, sheesh, you just can't let it go can you? You just keep stirring that pot,...............cause thats what DQs do best ...........jackass
A Sphere:
I wasn't trying to help or be supportive. White Dove put out a topic for discussion. People discussed and offered their different perspectives, as I did. If you read through the original thread and this thread carefully you will see that White Dove herself never considered the man meant anything but "heat" until Wing Commander suggested it and then she changed her perspective to fit what he said. It suddenly went from he might have meant something different to he definitely did mean something different and any who disagreed with the new take and the direction it was taking, were indeed jumped all over.
If you read carefully you will also note that I never did actually call White Dove a drama queen. I simply commented on what I saw as a dramatic escalation of events with no evidence. However, if the shoe fits.... Surely, you don't all thinks it offensive for someone to insinuate that someone's though processes might be somewhat overly dramatic and surely you don't claim that's the same thing as calling them a drama queen? Because White Dove her self assures us that its not when she says that telling the man his behaviour was a bit sleazy and unethical is not at all the same thing as calling him sleazy and unethical. You cannot have it both ways.
I realize you are a personal friend, but in the interests of fairness, please use the same measuring stick for behaviour for all posters on this topic. No special pleading allowed. Because the rest of us don't know White Dove personally. We only know her by the words she posts and puts out there in public for public discussion. If she only wants people to comment on her threads who agree with her and validate her perspectives as they change before our eyes, then she should put a disclaimer in her first post telling everyone that. Good luck with that! Or perhaps she should limit her tales to her personal friends and family off line. If she can't take the "heat" of someone disagreeing with her then perhaps she should stay out of the public forum. And let me make myself very clear, by "heat", I am not sexually propositioning either of you!
I find it sad that some view people disagreeing with them as "picking" on them. I have no intent to pick on anyone. It's ironic you don't consider calling me a jackass and telling me to go eff myself picking on me. I see it simply as the double standard, two different measuring sticks, and the last resort of someone who doesn't actually have a valid argument to any of the valid and logical points I raised.
I'm sorry that you and White Dove have two measuring sticks and two different personalities, an angry one for on line to swear and name call people you don't know and a nice quiet one for offline and people you do know. Perhaps you and White Dove can get a two for one discount on some therapy for that.
Cog
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Whats the most bizzare way a JW has ever tried to "encourage" you?
by highdose inin my case it was my best freind in the cong who decided to encourage me to answer up at the wt by... refusing to talk to me afterwards if i hadn't answered up!
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cognizant dissident
If your jw husband kills you, at least you're guaranteed into the new system.
Gee how comforting that must have been for you JB.
Sorry EE, didn't mean to kill your buzz. It's really not that bad a story compared to some I've heard.
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Lady Lee- who are you, and what's YOUR story?
by theMadJW insince they have fingered you as a mod, you should have a very interesting tale to tell; please do!.
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cognizant dissident
In my observation, people who want other people to move on emotionally, and talk about something else, usually don't want to have to deal with their own difficult emotions that are stirred up when people tell their abuse stories.
Admittedly, it is not an easy thing to listen to or read (imagine how hard it was to live it!)
I can see both sides of the issue. From my own experience I know that one of the worst things about being a victim is being silenced, not having a voice, no one wants to hear what happened to you. Nobody cares. You aren't worth listening to never mind helping. It is easier to call a child a liar than to admit this evil happened in your own family. It is easier to pretend it never happened and move on than to deal with the horrific feelings that bringing something so evil into conscious awareness triggers in a person (victim as well as listener).
Because of that, which is pretty common experience in my understanding, a huge component in healing is telling and retelling the story as many times as is needed to take the power of it away. Especially the power of "the secret", which just empowers the abuser not the victim. So retelling your story is essential.
On the other hand, also from my own experience, I know that one can keep a sense of emotional victim hood going by continually rehashing the events in ones own mind or constantly leading with that part of your life story as if that is all that defines you. I got to a point where I really didn't need to tell that part of my story to anyone anymore. I had healed and moved on and it just isn't that relevant to my life anymore.
The crucial aspect in all this is that is up to the victim to decide when that point arrives. It is very presumptuous and condescending for someone else to tell anyone when to stop grieving and finish healing no matter what the "illness" is.
Also, when someone decided to use their experience to help others and make that their life's work, it is often helpful to other victims to share your own story. They truly need to know that their counselor's "get it". I mean really, really "get it". From experience, not from book learning or a counseling 101 course. This necessitates sharing your own story over and over again, not because you haven't got over it or moved on emotionally, but because it is helpful to your clients. I'm sure there are days when Lady Lee would rather not re-visit her past and just think about something more light and carefree. But this is the helping profession she has chosen and that's a sacrifice she makes for others.
There are days when I won't click on any abuse threads, or comment on them because I just really don't want to deal with it. That doesn't mean I don't have compassion for victims. It just means I'm having a bit of compassion for myself that day. There are many, many victims out there and there needs to be many, many helpers. Just not all on the same day. Some days I do comment not really thinking anyone is paying any attention to what I have to say, and then I'll get a PM from someone saying that my post really, really helped them. I'm often surprised as I wasn't trying, just putting in my two cents worth.
My point is you just never, never know when something you say might make all the difference to someone who is suffering. fSo that's reason enough to keep talking about it, no matter how painful it is to listen to.
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Lady Lee- who are you, and what's YOUR story?
by theMadJW insince they have fingered you as a mod, you should have a very interesting tale to tell; please do!.
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cognizant dissident
So true Heaven:
Scenario: Two 12 year old girls are raped. Different families. They both tell. In one family, the fathers and brothers and uncles rally around the girl, threatening revenge on the molestor, although the women talk them into going to the police instead of taking matters into their own hands. The mother take the girl for counseling to help her to cope with her experience.
In the second family, the girls is not believed or supported. When she is examined and found to have indeed been raped, her family shrugs it off, telling her to never talk about so she doesn't bring shame on the family. The don't even call the police. She is left to get over it on her own.
Which girl do you think grows up feeling loved and supported and cared about by her family? Which girl do you think grows up with emotional problems, afraid and mistrustful of men?